Interview with the Chairperson of the Uruguayan Association of Professional Prostitutes

To be considered decent your children die of hunger

Helvecia Pérez

One thousand two hundred "sex workers" -as they prefer to be called- are members of the Uruguayan Association of Professional Prostitutes (AMEPU). Over the past fifteen years, they have achieved a series of advances, arguing all the way down the line that what they do is a job. Their profession is now legally recognised: over twenty prostitutes have obtained a state pension, AMEPU is a member of the national trade conferation congress and receives state support for people with HIV/AIDS. LOLA spoke with the chairperson of AMEPU, Susana Ribeiro, about their achievements and ideas, and also about the limitations and conflictive relationships women working in this particular profession have with clients, partners, transvestites, children and society at large.

The Association of Prostitutes maintains that prostitution is a job. What is the conceptual basis for this argument?

For me, it's a job. We don't use the term 'prostitution' any more, we call ourselves sex workers because we work with our genitals. We are aware of the different positions held by feminist groups and we know that some people question whether it's a job or not. We believe that it is - it may be the last option that a woman has in terms of work, but it's a job. Many women find it hard to adapt, others less so, but they take on the job and carry it out as professionals. On the job there is no emotional exchange or anything - it's a job, a profession, that's all.

Should this profession exist in an ideal society?

If there's a demand for it, why not? For those who enjoy the job and benefit from it, why not? If we lived in a more favourable economic context, in an ideal society, it would be more profitable. If workers earned more, were better off economically, the women could charge more and have a much higher standard of living. There has always been a demand for it, since prehistoric times. Men -you know what they're like- they're very macho, this is what they like and you have to exploit these things.

How would you react if your daughter wanted to work in this profession?

In the first place, I entered this profession to avoid having my children become delinquents or sex workers. If they were to do so, I would still be their mother. I am, first of all, a woman, then a mother, and only then a sex worker.

It seems clear that it is not a profession you would like for your son / daughter.

No, because you go through a lot, many more things happen to you than happen to women who work in "normal and decent" jobs - which is how other people describe them, particularly women, who tend to be the most discriminatory.

What impression do the sex workers have of how society regards them?

Society has changed its attitudes towards sex workers quite considerably. Right from the start, we have been open to society. We have a playschool open twenty-four hours a day. First it was just for the sex workers' children, but now a lot of children from the neighbourhood attend. AMEPU continues to care for sick sex workers, but we also have a large number of HIV positive men and women from the population at large, who don't work in our profession. I've been on radio programmes and social attitudes have changed noticeably.

Your members are independent sex workers, but others are dependent. Tell us about this difference.

What do you mean? Are you asking whether they have procurers?

Yes. How does the market operate?

In the labour market, most women are independent. Today, sex workers are freer, they're more aware. Very often, when they start out, they come here to find out about what they need to do. We send them to get their papers and give them information. The best way to operate is independently. But, as with all rules, there are exceptions; there may be procurers, but in Uruguay, I have the feeling that they are minor players, kept men. There's no market here to make large sums of money. The real procurers emigrate - they're not here, they're in Europe. Women gain respect on the street and learn to look after themselves. The street teaches you many things: to be tough, to deal with a lot of situations that a woman who does something else might not be able to handle. But women who are on the street everyday know how to get through. They also learn to bring up their children on their own.

When the women have partners, what's the relationship like?

The relationship is normal because often the man works in a factory and the woman works in this profession. It is another contribution to the household income and they have a normal relationship. You can't compare the couple's relationship with the relationship the sex worker has with a client. The women aren't frigid, they have the same feelings as anyone else. The only difference is that they offer their feelings and their pleasures to the person they really love. It's easier for a sex worker to end a relationship which she is no longer interested in, when there are no feelings or anything left, than for a woman in our society who isn't a sex worker. Often a woman who leads a "normal" life puts up with violence from her partner because of the money he brings in. The sex worker doesn't have to suffer these situations, because she can keep herself.

The pimp - a man who exploits one or more women - is he a collective myth? Is he exceptional in Uruguay?

Some exist. I don't know who they are. I can't say "the pimps hang out in such-and-such an area" because I don't know where they are. The organisation has no dealings with them. If a woman who has quarrelled with her husband or escaped from him comes to AMEPU, we give her shelter. There is a place here for her, where men can't enter. They can't come and kick up a fuss because this place is legally registered, as a refuge, a place of protection. But we don't force the women to send the men to prison or to press charges. That's their choice.

How do women become prostitutes?

It's usually due to a lack of work, to economic problems. One decides to become a sex worker as a last resort. You're a journalist? If your newspaper pays you a thousand pesos and you know that you can earn a little more doing something else, and you have four or five kids and you know that you won't be able to feed them on a thousand pesos ... Each woman makes her own decision. I mean, between paying the price for respectability -being able to say you're a "decent" member of society- and letting your children die of hunger or sending them out to sell knick-knacks ... The children you see begging on the streets aren't the children of sex workers, not usually.

What about child prostitution?

AMEPU is against it, because we're talking about the exercise of free will, an option freely chosen by a woman when she reaches the age of majority. A child, a minor, doesn't have that freedom. Behind that girl or boy there is someone responsible for them. I wouldn't lock the child up, I would lock the parents up.

How do prostitutes live, hiding their feelings and their own suffering?

Personal values are left by the wayside. We all come from a sexist society, where the man is dominant in the home, and girls are educated to look after the man, the home and the children. Then, you find yourself having to go out and make a living, because he's left you with two or three children to look after, so you're the head of the family now and you have to cope. The women this happens to start to get tougher, they hide behind a mask. They lead a double life, they are obliged to do so by society. I'm a sex worker and I say so openly, but not all women do. At home often no one knows what their job is and they tell their children "I'm going to look after some old folks, I am going to nurse someone who's sick". They can't say it, because society condemns them -both the women and their children who go to school. The suffering is hidden, but why does this happen? Obviously, because society sets them apart. We live in a society that marginalises and stigmatises people -it happens to us sex workers, to transvestites and HIV sufferers. If only people minded their own business ... There are women who cheat on their husbands but nobody stigmatises them. They do it for free, not because they have to provide for their families, but because they enjoy doing it. And who points their finger at them?

How do sex workers experience pleasure?

Whenever and however they like. They are freer than other women in this respect. If tomorrow a sex worker has a client who is good at making love and she wants to feel pleasure, she does. And if she has a partner, where no money is involved, she does too. Sex workers are freer to feel pleasure with whomever they want, they are more independent.

Where are the limits of the profession?

The limits are set by the women and it varies in each case. You do what the client hired you to do and you only agree to what you want, you aren't obliged to do anything.

Lately there has been talk of a shift or of competition between prostitutes and transvestites ...

There is no competition. What has increased are men's sexual weaknesses. They go out with transvestites, but don't think that they play the man's part, very often they are the passive partners. Clients have changed their sexual preferences. There's much more pornography now, men need this type of thing, they want to try things out. They'll try out anything ...

What are clients like today? Do they have very sophisticated demands?

They don't ask for much, because the truth is that they can't pay much. Sometimes they ask for a transvestite, directly.

How do sex workers see the money issue? How far will a prostitute go for more money?

There is no limit. It depends on the agreement reached between the woman and the client.

Who establishes the conditions?

The woman establishes the conditions. She sets a price, and for the money she can get from the guy, she'll go as far as he's agreed to pay. She doesn't do anything for free. The man doesn't give anything away either, he's hiring a service. He tries to get you to lower your price and speculates with your needs. The sex worker manages her sexuality better than other women, and has sex with whom she wants. The ordinary woman often has intercourse with her husband even when she doesn't want to, she just spreads her legs - she has to because it's seen as part of the matrimonial mandate. The sex worker has sex if she wants to, and if she doesn't, she doesn't have to. Man is an animal who likes change, he likes variety. However much he's in love with his wife, he likes to have "a bit on the side". His macho mentality allows him to have his "good little woman" at home, and another for pleasure. The way he sees it, it's fine for him to enjoy certain pleasures with a sex worker, but perhaps not so acceptable with his wife. Let them go on thinking like that, because it means more work for us.

Helvecia Pérez is a Uruguayan sociologist and free-lance journalist.

Translated by Victoria Swarbrick

A story of achievement

The Uruguayan Association of Professional Prostitutes (AMEPU) was founded fifteen years ago and became a legally registered organisation in 1986, with one thousand two hundred members. The demand that has been emblematic of their struggle from the early days, when they used to meet at the home of one or other of the members and were often arrested for working as prostitutes on the street, is respect for the rights of all sex workers.

In 1996 they became members of the national workers' confederation (PIT-CNT), and shortly afterwards the board of directors of the state department of social security (BPS) recognised them as self-employed workers. Today, over twenty Uruguayan prostitutes receive a state pension, the profession is publicly recognised and AMEPU leaders are frequently to be found defending their rights in the press or on television.

Since 1991, AMEPU has been collaborating in the preparation of a bill to establish legal conditions and free work zones, declaring sex work to be a legal activity and regulating the issuing of good conduct certificates (a document that is compulsory for those working in the profession). The proposal defines workers' obligations, such as paying contributions to the BPS and having regular medical controls. It also proposes regulations regarding clothing during specific hours. It covers transvestites, "taxi-boys" and all other sex workers. It is at present under discussion in the parliamentary Human Rights Committee.

AMEPU has a permanent advice centre providing psycho-emotional support to HIV/AIDS carriers, whether they are sex workers or not. The centre makes referrals to various services, according to the person's needs: to obtain free public transport passes, food baskets or a range of documentation. Few of AMEPU's members are HIV/AIDS carriers. The National AIDS programme statistics show that only 4.6% of people who are HIV-positive are sex workers, a rate that has remained unchanged for years.

Translated by Victoria Swarbrick

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